INTERVIEW: pj Morton
5 time Grammy Award winner, PJ Morton sits down with Tirade World to unpack his latest project, ‘Cape Town to Cairo’. Recorded in 30 days across 5 countries in Africa, the singer, songwriter and pianist, explores identity, perseverance and evolution.
Interview by GRACEY MAE
Congrats brand new project, ‘Cape Town to Cairo’. You set yourself a 30-day challenge to record an album in Africa, what inspired this?
I think a number of things. One, the motivation was wanting to go to Africa. I hadn't really been outside of North Africa so I wanted to connect with where my ancestors were from. Then once I got the idea of collaborating with artists in Africa, it just kept getting bigger and bigger. I watched some stuff on Paul Simon's album, Graceland, that he did in South Africa. One of the things that I noticed was the backlash he got; he went and got the sauce, got the rhythms, got some of the sounds and then went back to finish it. So I was like, I love that he did that but I want to make sure that I create fully on the continent, as opposed to taking the vibes and then processing them later. So that's how the 30 days became a thing and it exceeded all my expectations.
The 30 days wasn’t just recording. You were everywhere! You did South African Idol. You went to Elmina Castle. You were at Mandela's residents. What was the most defining point of the trip for you?
I think there were many - it's hard to pick because I did multiple countries as well. In South Africa, it was working at Constitution Hill, where Mandela was imprisoned. They turned part of it into a recording studio called Flame Studios. I worked there and feeling that was crazy. My highlight in Lagos was going to Felabration; we landed in Lagos on Fela’s birthday so it was the last day of celebration. That was an experience! In Ghana, we went to the [slave] dungeons and the castle. We’ve always known that these people were taken and, and brought to the new world, but to actually physically see it was something different. I would say those were some big ones for me.
You vlogged the entire experience which was beautiful to see!
Yeah, we're actually working on the proper documentary but this was daily vlogs just to show what we were doing. I wanted in real time to show everybody what was happening while I was experiencing it. The documentary is going to be a little more in depth; showing me writing the songs etc. We go back to Africa in September to tour Nigeria, Ghana, Kenya and three places in South Africa, so in the documentary, I want to show us going back to perform the songs that we created there.
We really got to see another side of you! Let’s dig a little deeper. You started playing keys at the age of 8 and your first singing performance was at 14 but you were heavily inspired by your sister’s cassette with the Beatles.
Talk to us about that?
When my little sister was born there was a lullaby tape that just had multiple different songs on it. It had the Beatles ‘Hey Jude’, ‘Yesterday’ and more - I was like drawn to those melodies. My mum started telling me stories about The Beatles. The first thing that hit me was that Paul McCartney's name. His name is Paul. My name is Paul. I probably could do what he does; that kind of started a lifelong love for the Beatles. I didn't make it to London until after [Hurricane] Katrina. I brought my band members here and we were right around the corner from Abbey Road [Studios] - that was a full circle moment.
Shoutout to Mum. I’m a big fan of your dad too: Bishop Paul S Morton. It was interesting for me to find out that you're a PK (Pastor’s kid), but he is too!
Yeah, he's also a PK. His dad was amazing. My dad lost his dad when he was 12 so I never got to meet my grandfather, but he was such a huge figure in Detroit and Windsor, Ontario - where my dad's from. He was one of the first pastors to have church locations in both Canada and the US. My dad was highly inspired by his dad and kept it going.
If I ask Siri to play ‘Humble Yourself’, what does that song mean to you?
Oh wow! That was my first solo my first solo with the choir. I was actually very shy as a singer. I mean very shy. That was before I was even playing keys so I hadn't found my security blanket which became the keys; I would just hide behind that. I remember my dad, making sure I got it right. Rehearsing it over and over till I was in tears, like Joe Jackson without the hitting! He just wanted the best for me. I remember all the ad libs and everything because he gave them to me. [Sings] If you need a doctor, if you need a lawyer…
Earlier, you touched on Hurricane Katrina which heavily affected New Orleans, your home town. The culture there is super rich and vibrant, especially for musicians. How did growing up here mold your sound?
Sonically not as much, but it did impact the way that I think of my music. First off, you got to be really good to make it out here. The worst musicians here are still great compared to everywhere else because we're just born into that culture of music. It's so crazy because Africa brought it out even more. I've always used horns on different songs but being in Africa, specifically, High Hife in Ghana, and Afrobeat in Nigeria - hearing those horns, and hearing that percussion, really started to connect the dots for me. I didn't realise that I knew this music internally already. The diaspora is everywhere. Fela was inspired by James Brown and I felt like this was an exchange.
I love the big band elements. In the daily vlogs, we actually caught the moment where you met Femi and Made Kuti, Fela’s son and grandson at Felabration. Made is on the project – was he an artist you already had your eyes on?
What’s so crazy about working on something in 30 days is everybody had to buy into the 30 days. So everything was double speed, triple speed. Literally, in that daily vlog, when I met Made, that was my first time meeting him. We started to talk after! I wrote ‘Smoke and Mirrors’, ‘Who You Are’ and ‘All the Dreamers’ the Day after Felabration. It was electric. I was so inspired. I reached out to Made, he loved it and hopped on ‘Who You Are’.
You’re touring with this project, how did you pick the locations?
The good thing is that we've been touring for many years! Touring has been my lifeline. When I couldn't get on the radio, when I couldn't get to a mass amount of people, I was underground, doing shows! Our live show was our best promotion; the most accessible promotion. So a lot of the stops are our core cities, and we've added some we've been able to grow! Africa is new for us to be touring the way we are. We get to start the tour off in London!
A crowd favourite is ‘How Deep Is Your Love?’ which is a cover. If you were gonna rewind time and pick another song to remake what would it be?
What’s so funny is that was a random pick. I was asking people for covers, and then I ended up looking up the top 20 songs of all time. ‘How Deep Is Your Love?’ was there and I was like, “I love that song” so it just happened. I didn't overthink it. I generally don't like to cover Stevie songs because it just sounds like I'm trying too much like Stevie and it's just not as good. I would probably go with The Beatles like ‘Strawberry Fields Forever’ or ‘Yesterday’ which is such a classic aura. Oh! I could do ‘Here Comes the Sun’ which is one of my favorites as well.
I can hear each one of them now! One of my favourite songs of your is ‘Say So’ featuring JoJo but I heard that when you reached out, you were sitting on read for a minute. What happened?
I think Jo was working on something or she was just getting out of her deal at that time. I had an original version of ‘Say So’ that I released but then I started to rethink it so I reached out but yes, she didn't see it. And We eventually ran into each other and she's like, “Oh, let me go look for it” and the rest is history!
We love a great collab. Have you got any other African artists in mind?
I mean, there's so many. I want to work with Tems for sure. I think she's special. I’m feeling Gyakie that I talked to in Ghana!
Diving into the project! Starting with ‘Smoke and Mirrors’. The song to me is about deception. What does it mean to you?
I like to hear people's perspectives because I do think that once you put out songs, they're not your own anymore. They become whatever your perception of it is. For me, it was kind of twofold. It's talking about my history and my experience in the music business. A lot of the things that I would search for or aspire to be, weren't quite what I thought they were. Once I started to break them down, it's like, “Oh, that's how they got that”, or “That's how they were big”, or “That's how that song was big”. I don't necessarily want it that way. It’s so much smoke and mirrors. How many times do we see artists who had hit songs, and then we see them 10 years later saying “I was actually broke” but we don't see broke executives ever so it was partly that. Then it was partly, I felt like I was lied to about Africa. Everything people showed me or what I was taught in school, or what I saw on the books, the way they portrayed Africans is not true. Nigerians get a bad rap in the sense of aggressive. I understand it, it’s like New Yorkers get a bad rap of being rude or mean. The beauty of Africa - being in Cape Town, seeing these mountains; nobody showed me this, nobody showed us this! In real time, the blindfold was being pulled off.
I love that. Have you ever done any DNA testing - do you know your heritage?
We’re about to do my African ancestry. We're going to have that as a part of the documentary.
Based on where you've been, do you have an affinity to one country more than the other?
Yeah, West Africa, for sure. I can't even say that. South Africa, I fell in love with. The people were just so warm. It was beautiful. I loved it all, to be honest. Nigeria, is what I connected to most as far as the history of the music, the lineage. You start with a lot, but then you end up at Tems, Burna Boy, Wizkid and Tiwa [Savage], Fireboy. I mean, the list goes on. There is so much just in Lagos. And the food! The spice of the food reminded me of home a lot. Then Ghana, the people. I mean, when they said “Welcome home”, I like felt it deeply. The places I went to I really connected with and in a deep way for different reasons.
“Find the thing that that makes you unique and hone in on that. Hone in on why you're different. I think we all are. That thing that makes you unique is really where your treasure is. A lot of times people won't understand in the beginning because it's hard to understand something different from the norm. When it is true, it is real. When you remain true, eventually time allows that uniqueness to shine.”
A message to your family, friends and following?
— HOODZY
You mentioned home, ‘Home Again’, is another single on the project. It's more chilled. It's about love and having a safe space but if we take the phrase literally, can you describe what it felt like the first time you touched down in Sub Saharan Africa – did it feel like home again?
It did; it felt like home. Even though I hadn't been there, it felt like I was supposed to be here; Continuously people were telling us welcome home. I guess I didn't have time to process that stuff while I was writing because it was just going so fast. I had to go heart first and my brain caught up after I left. I'm listening to the lyrics, almost as if somebody else wrote the songs but with ‘Home Again’ we were coming towards the end of it, or we're about to go to Egypt, which was more of rest and relaxation for us. I got to just breathe and process everything I just experienced. We recorded ‘Home Again’, with The Cavemen on my last day in Nigeria. We only had a couple of hours; we went to their home studio and started to write that chorus almost immediately. The whole project is really organic; ‘Smoke and Mirrors’, ‘Who You Are’ all of those were the first take so it really was capturing something in the moment and that’s coming from someone who is a perfectionist. This was really an experiment and me kind of letting go and letting that first idea come out, and just trusting in that, as opposed to editing and making sure it's perfect. I think all of it has its place but this was not the time to do that.
‘Who You Are’ is track 4 on the project. How would you describe PJ Morton in 2024?
I'm really settled in a way, I’m at peace. I think for many years (because I consider myself an underdog in a lot of ways), I had to scrap, I had to fight to get here. Certainly in a commercial way. I think now I really don't have anything to prove so it's a peaceful, happy space. Now I'm really just having fun, I'm really creating. I think I know who I am musically. I know how to hear my voice when it's saying to do this and to do that. Being on the other side of when I was just figuring it all out is amazing. The beauty of music is it's always a discovery; Africa was something brand new for me. ‘Making Cape Town to Cairo’ was something brand new for me but there is a comfort. I mean, I’ve been doing it a long time so to say, “I'm gonna do this in 30 days” and do it, I feel like we could do anything.
You’ve definitely had a steeper journey that most realise scrapping at the start. Tt took a while to get that first deal. Agents didn't really want to work with you. You were signed to Lil’ Wayne and then you weren’t! When you look back to those days, what's been the biggest learning?
To never stop really. When I think about it, we were in it for years at that point and couldn't get a booking agent, that was blowing my mind. Financial people and business people didn't respect our music because they couldn't put their finger on it. It was confusing to them. You couldn't see what I was doing. It wasn't really apparent but I was building this following that was strong and loyal. With the Young Money signing, Lil Wayne came at a time where I had been doing it for a long time and wanted in. It was great to have that validation but once I got in there, I realized I wasn't as off the path as I thought, you just got to keep doing that. Once I released an album (that was Grammy nominated), I was preparing to go into another album, that's when I really settled that I think I'm meant to be independent where I can move at the rhythm and the pace that I want to. Through all of that stuff, I realized just keep living, keep doing, keep trusting your vision, even when it doesn't look like you. I always say, it is important to remain open. I'm always checking in with myself because you still want to grow. Ultimately, I know that the vision I had for myself trumps everything else. Nobody else is going to be more passionate about yourself than you. Nobody is going to put as much into your career as you can. A lot of times with the majors, when they're done, you're done so now, no matter what, I gotta make sure I'm good - that's the biggest lesson for me.
Big facts. I was at the GRAMMYs this year when you won your fifth award but you were not. Where were you?
I was in Africa.
There is a video online of your reaction when they announced you as the winner – it was crazy! Take us to that moment.
That was so genuine - that was a real reaction. We had to watch the live stream because I was in Johannesburg. There were some South Africans producers who were also nominated and couldn't get to the show so we said at the last minute, let's do a watch party. We went to my friend’s house and we just watched. I let everybody in the room know, right before my award, “Don't feel bad if I lose” blah, blah, blah. I kind of forgot who was in the category. So when they said announcer said SZA, Victoria Monet and the others, I didn’t think I’d win. I never allowed myself to assume - you just don't do that after you lost 15 times too. You start to realise that anything can happen so I was genuinely shocked. It was a special moment and it was good to be in Africa too. I was mixing ‘Cape Town to Cairo’ while I was there and so it was like, I'm right where I should be.That was so genuine - that was a real reaction. We had to watch the live stream because I was in Johannesburg. There were some South Africans producers who were also nominated and couldn't get to the show so we said at the last minute, let's do a watch party. We went to my friend’s house and we just watched. I let everybody in the room know, right before my award, “Don't feel bad if I lose” blah, blah, blah. I kind of forgot who was in the category. So when they said announcer said SZA, Victoria Monet and the others, I didn’t think I’d win. I never allowed myself to assume - you just don't do that after you lost 15 times too. You start to realise that anything can happen so I was genuinely shocked. It was a special moment and it was good to be in Africa too. I was mixing ‘Cape Town to Cairo’ while I was there and so it was like, I'm right where I should be.
Given that you are Christian, what was it like being by the Nile and in Egypt around all the stuff that we've read about in the Bible?
It was pretty surreal. We got to just chill in our hotel which was actually on the Nile River. We took a boat ride and I basically had the whole album done. I wrote the rest of the lyrics of ‘I Found You’ in Egypt. I had to make sure the sequencing and everything was done before I left Africa. I remember being on the boat and just thinking of all the history, all the things that we know and have read about happened on the Nile River. It was a perfect bow to wrap up this spiritual journey that I was on.
Let’s wrap up with the first single released from the project, ‘Simunye’. It’s very gospel coded. Was it important for you to include the more traditional sound of Africa?
I made sure that I didn't set any expectations so it literally was whatever happens is what's going to happen. I didn't know what that was but when I got to Cape Town, I wrote ‘Simunye’ on the first day I was there cos that's what I was feeling. I was on the land and I was feeling authentic. Once I started to write it, I was like, “Oh, I should have that authentic choir”, you know the African choir sound. I was really intentional about making sure the songs came first - not thinking about not trying to lead myself one way or this sound needs to be here or this artist needs to be on the album. It was the songs first and then we figure out what we put on it after so I allowed myself to be free.